Better Damage: A Tactical Discussion

A Thread from the CServe Forum

Moderated by Admiral Sven Havoc (Sandy Hemenway)

Edited by Lord Kron, IKV Vandal (Jim Hart)


(This is a continuation of the previous discussion, but on to another topic. How much damage can you take? ---Vandal)

The Admiral returns to the auditorium and after a few moments the chaotic rumble from the audience softens to a quiet rustling.

"Thank you for your patience. I had to see about moving my gear to a new suite in the BOQ. However, I was monitoring your conversations via intercom during my absence. I am disappointed you were not able to continue the discussion without my prodding. However, that aside, I would like to continue our discussion on Better Performance by analyzing the way starships take damage. If you will pull up the schematic of the damage allocation chart on your databooks . . . "

The Admiral pauses while the throng scrambles to find their databooks.

"In order to understand how damage occurs on a starship, you must be intimately familiar with this chart. You must know its nuances. You must be able to roughly guess what damage you are likely to take and likely to give against a particular opponent. I have witnessed too many cadets engaging an enemy, hoping to get TWO tractor hits with their alpha-strike to prevent themselves from being anchored. None of these poor cadets had bothered to analyze the DAC long enough to note that in order to get two tractors on a single volley, you must COMPLETELY destroy at least one warp engine.

While damage is always a little flukey, if you know your opponent's average damage can do 16 internals, you should know your ship well enough to predict the general damage. For a pristine Hydran TLM, I'd expect 9 hull, 2 power, 3 weapons, and 2 other. Can someone tell me what a Klingon D7 could expect to lose off its first 16 internals?"

The Admiral waits, smiling. As a death-like silence shrouds the auditorum, the Admiral's smile turns into a frown.

"Is this severe lack of response because you all feel you are experts on the DAC, or are you all completely clueless? I only ask so I can figure how to continue this discussion . . . . or should I call it a speech?"

Junker yawns. "Hmmmm. I'm not really sure. I've only flown the D7CT once in the simulators. How about all you Klingons out there?"

Commander Kralf's voice crackles over the sbspace. "Look. Its exactly the same as for the Hydran ship except there is a chance the Officers mess will be completley whalloped and we loose a battery. Two If we are unlucky.

"Most TCs with a unitary movement cost can shrug off 16 internals, even the Klingon. I often engage with the understanding of taking 20 internals. It is the subsequent 10 to 20 internals that are all-important.

"As a general rule, the longer the reload cycle of your ships main weapons, the more vulnerable you are to Mizia attacks. The Hydran being a classic example due to the lack of phaser padding and the seventh shield making the one big volley unattainable for most ships.

"But if I may pose a question to the cadets, what are the best systems to spend your 4 CDR points on in the following ships?

"Klingon, Gorn, Orion, WYN Aux, and A-Tholian.

Junker takes the first stab at it. "For the Orion, that's easy. WARP ENGINES. If the game's going well, you will already have spent your 4 CDR system limit on your engines as you probably burnt them out yourself. (Of course, you'll be repairing them as AWR)."

Ensign MAX stands again, ever ready to rush an answer to the floor. "Klingon, Disruptor, Disruptor, Disruptor .... possibly a Phaser as a Phaser 3 for padding, depending upon how the internal count is going.

"Gorn, I don't fly this bucket.

"Orion ... ENGINE, ENGINE, ENGINE, ENGINE, 'nuf said.

"WYN Aux ... Disruptors if your packing them, Phasers as Phaser 3's (2 a turn) to act as padding for your 360 Phaser 1's.

"A-Tholian .... I also don't fly this bucket."

A large Kzinti who was apparently sleeping throughout the discussion opened one eye and looked up. "Adm. Havoc, Sir."

"Yes, Cat Who Bites Last?"

"Due to the lack of any real forward hull a internal volley of 16 might break into the D7 batts or the impulse engines. This information is important because a Klingon might dump his bats into shield reinforcement for a smaller volley then other ships would. This can deplete or destroy his reserves. If the Klingon captain did not allocate with this in mind, he may lose some options(HET, negative tractor, ect..) he was expecting to have.

"It is best to hit the Klingon with a large first volley which blows through the forward hull into the bats and impulse. Take away those and the Klingon loses more options. Take away a Klingons options and he dies.

"Normally, with 16 internal, I would expect the same 9 hull, with a disruptor, drone and 2 phasers, 2 power and one for luck."

As the large Zinti took his seat he added, "Just because a Cat's eyes were closed, does not mean he was asleep."

Weibert stands and, waving his hand-comp in the air, shouts, "I have it, Admiral, I will take a stab at this one.

"A Klingon D7 can expect roughly the following from a volley of 16 internals:

1 Drone or Torp, 2 Phasers, 1 LWarp, 2 RWarp1, 4 FHull, 1 Batt, 1 Imp, 3 AHull, 1 AuxCon or Bridge, and 1 Other hit, which could be power or another weapons hit most likely

This is average internals against a front shield from a Tholian TCC firing through web at range 2. A beautiful picture is it not?"

"It is not," Kron growls.

As the conversation suddenly takes off, the Admiral smiles.

"Mr. Weibert has done an excellent job with his analysis - though perhaps too detailed. The key difference that I was after was that those hull hits, especially forward hull, run out quickly on the Klingon. Bites Last did a nice job of explaining why this is important. One subtlety of the DAC is that hull hits account for almost TWO THIRDS of all damage, as long as hull is available. And roughly two thirds of all hull hits will go to forward hull rather than aft. One needs this knowledge if one is to plan ahead - as Bites Last stated. However, he also said he expects 9 hull hits. By my reckoning that would be 6 forward and 3 aft. Since the D7 has only 4 forward - THAT means two power systems, impulse or battery, are going down."

"In the tourney round just completed, I am aware of a Kzin who when told he would take 40 internals, elected to use NO batteries, and included a statement in his SOP that "if all his batteries survived, then HET. This cadet obviously did not understand the probabilities involved in having no batteries hit on his Kzinti TC when sustaining a 40 point volley. With only 5 forward hull on the ship, the point you can expect your batteries to start vanishing is somewhere around 15 internals. Knowing this BEFORE you reach the critical points in combat is mandatory if you are to become a truly proficient starship Captain."

"A chart one might want to construct would be a 36-internal volley. That would cover ALL A-row hits with at least one occurence. With that chart constructed, 36 ints can be divided down into any number of nice fractions, where A-row hits on volleys can easily be estimated. Then, to become a better Captain, it is up to you to understand where internals bleed once the A-row systems are destroyed. The Cat brings up a good point -- attack the Klingon's power systems by going for large volleys -- since the D7 is vulnerable in this regard. Of course, the Hydran, with the massive center-hull, is much more vulnerable to Mizia attacks. Knowing when Mizia is called for versus large alphas is incredibly important in winning engagements."

"And after ships have taken 10 or 20 internals, the efficacy of Mizia vs. Alpha may alter depending on what was destroyed in the initial attack. It is recognizing these subtleties during combat that separates the great Captains from the merely competent ones."

"As for you, Junker, one of the points I am trying to make here is that you shouldn't need to have flown these ships to know how the damage is scored. You only need to have a schematic of the ship and a clear understanding of how the DAC works."

"As to Kralf's poser . . . I'll respond to that in a moment. MAX?"

"Another point," Max adds. "It is illegal to allocate power to anything other than shield reinforcement at the time a volley is rolled. So the Kilingon has to allocate reserve warp to tractor PRIOR to declaring fire. If that power is not going to be used immediately, then it has to be done at the end of the previous impulse.

"Excellent point," the Admiral says. "So if the Klingon takes that damage and hasn't put the reserve power anywhere else, he may as well put it to shield reinforcement, because he's going to lose it otherwise."

"Kralf also brings up valid points. However, what I'm trying to stress here is that it IS important to know exactly when you can expect your batteries to start dying. If I may create an over-simplified example: Imagine a WYN AuxBC with photons in the wings fighting any other TC. He fires a full alpha, range 5, taking down your shield to zero, but doing no internals. However, one of the wing photons was not in arc, though the WYN is moving next impulse and is turn eligible. Expecting the WYN to turn and take advantage of your down shield (you're not moving and are not yet turn elligible), you have options. You can A) - use any number of your batteries for reinforcement now BEFORE the shield drops. you can B) let the shield drop and HET next impulse, (though this will come before the WYNs movement), you can C) during the movement portion of the next impulse, draw your reserve warp into HET before he fires that last photon, or D) do nothing, and hope he misses with the photon or that your batteries survive so you can then HET and blow his doors off."

"Understanding the DAC means understanding approximately how many internals ANY ship can expect to take before its batteries start chaining. And all you need to know is how many forward, aft, and center hull the ship has. THAT and a clear understanding of DAC probabilities."

"But to get back to Kralf's question of where to allocate CDR. Ensign MAX, I won't bother to comment on your choices at this time. However, I do take exception with your comment that because you don't fly a particular ship you shouldn't know where it should use its CDR. You see, a superior Captain anticipates his enemy. If you understand the Klingon or Kzinti is likely to repair a destroyed disruptor in a single turn as a range 10 disruptor, you can take this into account when moving and firing on this turn - expecting that disruptor to appear next turn. And while this CAN cross you up, usually it prevents YOU from getting surprised. Perhaps it is impulse 32 and you have a movement option of moving into a weapon blind-spot of the Kzinti, (where all the weapons were either destroyed or fired in the last 8 impulses), OR turning to present a fresh shield to the Kzinti, though this will bring you in arc of unfired weapons. The realization that a disruptor may re-appear in that arc - or TWO phaser-threes is a SERIOUS consideration before making your move. If you want to be a superior Captain, you must know what your enemy is likely to do, as well as what is best for you."

"Admiral," MAX replies. "There is no need to take "exception" to my comments. I simply needed to check the repair times on their primary systems before responding tothe question. Rest assured, in a dual I would look them up. The cost is the major limiting factor with CDR and I would be looking closely at his down systems, anticipating a "cheap" repair and should none appear at the end of the turn, anticipate a more expensive one.

"I said I don't fly the Gorn, fair comment. Assuming he had lost 1 torp (F), 3 Phaser 1's and some power, I would anticipate he would repair the Phasers as Phaser 3's (2 of them in one turn) as padding for the remaining Phaser 1's, and as additional drone or fighter defense. This would correspond with a "mug" him approach when the Gorn does not anticipate the duel lasting until he has spend 1 - 2 (not sure which) turns repairing the system and another 2 until he has armed it and is able to fire it.

Of course, he may elect to carry on with a prolonged Plasma Ballet ... so will repair the Torpedo. Personnally I would not rate his chances. To ballet successfully in the Gorn it needs to flick between Left and Right side passes. Doing this with only a half load of plasma on one side and a down shield could be "tricky" in the extreme.

From where he has been lurking at the back of the auditorium, Kron stands.

"Admiral, your question is reasonable. Despite the fact that I may use this tactic in a game I am currently playing, I will reveal it here. When playing the Klingon, I use my CDR to repair forward hull as soon as it disappears. I will repair up to 3 boxes of the forward hull, reserving my last CDR for a disruptor or phaser. Depending upon the situation, I might repair 2 hull and a phaser (all of which can be done on 1 turn), still holding one for a disruptor.

"I do this because the two or three hull boxes that I repair will translate into two or three batteries or power systems that will NOT be destroyed next time I am hit. It is much easier to repair the protective systems than the power systems, and equally productive.

"Of coruse, if I have taken a large enough volley of internals that I have no more batteries or impulse drive, I may change my tactic. But the usual first volley of internals is a small number, 10-20, unless you're getting crunched by a Fed or Hyrdan, in which case you deserve to die. The 4 Fhull hits can be quickly repaired on your opponent's off turn, while you continue to chase and destroy.

"It's a good tactic...and one I think others should employ. It works well for the Kzin. In fact, almost any ship can use it, because repairing Hull is cheap and still protects your vital systems. It's like putting a bandage over a wound before you bleed to death."

Kron re-takes his seat as Vulpes rises.

"I would actually consider in the ORION repairing a disruptor. I often take a disr as one option to pad the two turn torps. Take the disr as the first hit on your exchange turn. Then while the other torps (photons) are reloading, you use cdr to fast repair it as a range 10 disr. It effectively pads the heavier torps with out resorting to fusion in the wings. I often hold off on starting the warp repair to see if i need this early.

"One of my option packages of choice is HB, PHOT, DISR, and either drones phaser or 2 drones in the wings. The loss of some crunch is made up for by quick repair and arming flexibility of the disr.

"Other than that the only answer for Orion is POWER or the occassional ph-3 as padding."

Junker takes the stage again. "As you say, one only need study the DAC for a short period of time to get the feel of it, and against a particular opponent, placing the two side by side will pretty much enlighten you as to what you should expect.

"In response to the question "What would you use CDR to repair?" Since I fly the Orion, that's what I commented on. As to the others, I could make an educated guess, but there's NO TELLING what's in your opponent's mind, so I won't bother. (There are some real crazy captains out there!)

Cat who bites last leans over to Kron. "The hull tactic is a good one. What I really like is when your opponent looks at you and says "Did you say three hull??".

"Yes," MAX adds. "And the bandage adage is a good one. Very true for the Klingons amoungst us, why prefer finesse dueling, as opposed to the "big stick" approach used by our inept opponents." Kron smiles as the Admiral leand out over the crowd.

"Well, while we're on the subject of CDR, yes, the situation will play a major role in what gets repaired. And yes, there are certainly unpredictable Captains out there to face. However, it is your responbility to know what your opponent's BEST CDR is likely to be, so you can plan for it. Experience indicates, the only heavy weapons that EVER get repaired are disruptors, drone racks, and PA Panels. The drone rack is usually repaired to protect still existing racks, and can be done in a single turn. The PA panel, though a 2-turn repair, is immediately useful when completed. And, of course, the range 10 disruptor is a single turn repair, which can be immediately used for combat."

"The REASON no one repairs photons or hellbores or PPDs, is because even if the repair is completed -- unlikely at all for the PPD or HB -- there is little to no chance of actually rearming the weapon, even if you're around long enough to complete the repair. The photon is cheap enough to repair in only 2 turns -- but then it's still 33 impulses before it can fire. The basic rules most good Captains follow for repairs is 'what can do me the most good NOW?' and 'with the damage I've sustained, where am I likely to need help (system-wise) in the next couple of turns?'"

"Kron brings up a good point. Repairs can be offensive -- a single-turn, range-10 disruptor for example -- or defensive -- a phaser-3 and two hull. While the situation and the particular damage sustained at the point you make your CDR decisions are critical -- knowing what your LIKELY future damage distribution to your ship will be is equally important. It is easy to say Hyrans shouldn't bother repairing hull. However, if the Hydran is down to 2 hull boxes and still has most of his weapons (I know - unlikely), the Klingon's hull repair is just as valid for the Marshall as it is for the D7."

"One other factor to keep in mind when making CDR decisions is that tourney duels generally have a short life-span. They are played on a time-limit, and unused resources do nothing to help your cause. A rule of thumb I generally go by is "The first three (3) repairs should be quick, and immediately useful. But I always consider carefully before starting that LAST repair. If both ships are tired, but it appears there may be a turn or two 'off' for re-arming, I might start a long-term repair -- like a Hellbore or PPD -- or go for the phaser-one rather than the 2 or 3. Usually, however, the tactical situation at the point that last CDR is chosen is one where immediate usefullness outweighs the long-term benefits."

"The one thing I want you all to take away from this discussion, though, is that it is the act of ANALYZING CDR efficacy that is important. Your conclusions may differ from mine, or Kron's, or Junkers. However, you are certainly better off having taken the time to look at the possibilities than those poor souls who don't. And even after you've reached your conclusions, it is important to at least occasionally review your decisions to insure you haven't amassed some new knowledge to your personal database to alter those choices."

"Today, you may dismiss the idea of using CDR to repair shield boxes -- yet, after facing several Hydrans in tourney duels, you may decide that against Hellbore ships, CDR for shield repairs is worth it. But if you do not take the time to review your own battles, and analyze your decisions -- good and bad -- you'll never get any better than you are today."

"This concludes the time we have for our discussion. Everyone please see today's duty roster on your way out of the auditorium. Thank you for your excellent comments, everyone." So stating, the Admiral crushes the metal can of his cola and tosses it towards the servo-compactor, which quickly opens to allow the can to sail in.


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