The symposium was conducted on the basis of the questions posed by mail. In the report which follows, the questions are reproduced followed by the discussion that took place.
Question 1. How many Skogkatts were registered in your country in 1993? And how many Skogkatt pedigrees are there in total?
Switzerland, Germany and Italy: It is not possible to say how many kittens were registered. In all three countries, the pedigree secretaries seemed to have problems getting the information out of the computers.
Spain (Carmen Hierro Mojarvo, by mail): There are three male and 2 female NFOs in Spain.
France (Fabrice Calmes, FIFe president in France and semi-long hair judge):
The following numbers of FIFe NFO kittens have been registered in the last few years:
1990: 52; 1991: 118; 1992: 160; 1993: 210
Ragnhild Kristoffersen (Norway): A total of 562 NFO kittens were born in Norway during 1993. There are still 319 cats in the novice class for the third generation, which therefore have RIEX pedigrees.
Denmark (Martin Kristensen): There were 607 NFO kittens in 1993, and there is a total of approximately 3,000 in the country.
Netherlands (Judith Zuurveld): There were 270 new FIFe NFO kittens in 1993, and approximately 100 from 'independent' breeders.
Keith Warboys (England): The NFO cats in England are not FIFe but GCCF (Governing Council of the Cat Fancy). Forest cats have only a preliminary recognition, and are not yet required to be registered for pedigrees. There were between 150 and 200 kittens in 1993, and there are some 500 to 700 in total.
Sweden (Maud Lindstedt, by mail): There were 1,470 kittens born in 1993, and there are about 7,000 altogether.
United States (Dawn M. Shiley, by mail): In the CFA alone, there were 95 litters in 1993 (compared with 117 in 1992, but only 8 in 1983), with a total of 350 kittens: 175 males and 175 females. Individual cat registrations for 1993 totalled 238: 98 males and 140 females. Individual registrations from 1958 - 1993 total 1,243: 548 males and 697 females. [Note: the report from the United States was a written report, and no one was able to attend in person. The above points are not altogether clear from the report. We understand that the 1958 date was used to cover the period during which registrations for all races have been tallied.]
Question 2: Do you have any specific problems with the Forest Cat population in your country (type, colour, genetic background, etc.)?
Switzerland (Monica von Ritter): Either there are no severe problems, or the breeders do not wish to discuss them. The type is generally good in Switzerland, and there are enough genetic lines to work with. There are, of course, occasional genetic disorders, but they do not seem to be transmitted regularly - the situation seems healthy for the number of kittens born. Occasional instances of tail fault have been noted, but they do not seem serious, and the same applies to umbilical hernias. These are not regular problems, but if they were to become so the club would follow them up. On colour, there is sometimes a criticism of whites - some people have trouble accepting the white cats.
Paula Swepston noted here that this problem is difficult to discuss, and that there is often a presumption of deafness among white cats which is not always borne out in practice.
[Note: In a fax which we were not able to read at the meeting, Jette Eva Madsen said there is a movement in the Netherlands to ban white-X-white breeding in order to minimize the deafness factor. She does not think this is so applicable to us because she does not know of any NFO breeders crossing white to white, but it would be unfortunate for Turkish Angoras breeders as most of their stock is still all white. She has offered to head a study of the problem of deafness among white NFOs, keeping track of deafness from litter to litter.]
[Update 2002: for various links to material about white cats and deafness, please refer to Skogkatt Online: NFO links page].
Spain: There are no particular problems, but all the cats have a slight break in the nose.
Fabrice Calmes noted that in judging he has seen many cats with tail faults. In addition he has observed temperament problems, especially among group 5 (red) cats and among some silvers. The question is whether this is allied with the colour genes or is simply a trait of some family lines.
France (Sylvie Olivet - Club des chats des forêts norvégiennes): There were 17 deaths out of the 108 births in the club in 1993, due variously to asphyxiation (high rate of lipids in blood), weak kittens, and a mother who had been bitten by a viper. The club believes that there should be autopsies in such cases, and that any genetic lines in which they appear regularly should be monitored.
France (Geneviève Cournud - Association internationale de la défense du skogkatt): The mortality rates are not consistent each year. Some tail faults are found, but are not serious, along with 1 or 2 "harelip" cases, which are also not systematic. In some lines the kittens tend to be very small, but this is gradually disappearing through sterilization. There had been a certain number of deaths of kittens apparently normal at birth, which stopped growing at about 8 months and died; this deserves study, and might be caused by problems with the pancreas.
Ragnhild Kristoffersen: There are no particularly difficult problems in Norway.Some tail problems do occur, but she does not know if they follow certain breeding lines. Cases of umbilical hernias are not necessarily genetic - as in a case she experienced herself,they could be caused by a frightened mother dragging a kitten before the cord is cut. A general point was that if serious problems arise breeders may be reluctant to discuss them. (There was general agreement that it was the same in all countries.)
Germany (Arnulf Stelzner): In Germany too it is difficult to get breeders to discuss their problems. There is so much variety in the bloodlines in Germany and so much importation that the stock is wide enough to avoid consistent problems.
Paula commented that it is not simply a question of hiding problems; many new breeders are simply not aware of the importance of genetic defects like tail faults or umbilical hernias. If they are relying on their vet's advice, he may simply reassure them that the fault is not life-threatening. Established breeders need to help newcomers understand these things and give them the benefit of the doubt when problems come up. For this reason it is important that the report of this meeting and other literature be made available to all members of the clubs represented.
Denmark : Nothing to add. The tail problem is the most frequent - not a kink, but an irregularity that appears at 6 to 10 months. They believe it comes from some of the older lines. They are not aware of the harelip problem.
Ragnhild added that the harelip is not always visible, and that some 'unexplained' kitten deaths and abandonment by mothers might be attributed to it as the kittens are not able to suck properly.
Netherlands: There are many lines and much outcrossing, which prevents frequent problems. As Judith had already indicated last year, the problem of flatchestedness does arise, but it seems that it can be treated by giving the mother a vitamin B complex during gestation. There had also been some discussion in recent months of a liver disease found in the USA but not yet in Europe: GSD or glycogen storage disease, which affects the distribution of carbohydrates in the system. [Dr. John Fyfe's explanation of this genetic disease is 'must' reading for Forest Cat breeders.]
p>England: There is some feeling that the cats are too small in England, and some talk of bringing in line breeding, with restrictions, to fix certain types. No problems are encountered with colours, nor any temperament problems encountered with reds.
Italy (read aloud from written report of Frida Brandi): The club is new, and exact information is limited. A general problem is that the cats are too small, and stronger cats are preferred, though this is a general problem which may not be restricted to Italy. More experience is needed to choose the best lines. She asked about the video of early Norwegian cats that had been discussed at last year's meeting, and hoped that it would eventually be made available.
Question 3: What is your opinion concerning novice Norwegian Forest Cats? Should the admission of novices be re-instated in Norway at the end of their five-year pause? Should they be admitted in other countries?
It was noted that in Norway, the novice class has been closed for a 5-year period and it is not known whether it will be reopened. Ina Svendesen from Norway had indicated in a telephone conversation that, while there might be some exceptions allowed, the cat would have to be of a very high standard, scoring at least 97 points out of the hundred in the standard.
Denmark: The general feeling in Denmark was against reopening the novice class. Look at the number of cats in Sweden - there are plenty of bloodlines available and no more are needed.
France (CCFN): The following excerpt from the English translation of Clarisse Vinot's written report was read out: ' think it imperative that the novice class be reopened at the end of the five years. While the 13NFO population has offered a sufficient number of different lines in recent years, it is certain that soon (perhaps in 3 or 4 years) the genetic capital will be consumed or almost entirely used up. The cat is an animal whose sexual maturity is relatively precocious, and a stud male can engender several dozen kittens a year. Thus 'new blood' will soon need to be inserted into breeders' lines to ensure judicious and varied reproduction. While in certain cases consanguinity - under strict and carefully considered conditions - is justifiable and defensible, it should not become inevitable because of an insufficiency of blood lines.'
France (Association): Geneviève Cournud said that the novice class might be reopened in Norway, but not in other countries, for instance in Spain where it seems there have been some novices appearing in the shows. She does not know whether the judges had allowed them to be judged.
Germany: (extract from faxed message from Margarete Leleithner): " Six or seven years ago, I wrote to the FIFe clubs in Switzerland, Italy, Austria, France, Netherlands and Germany requesting that the novice class be closed in each of those countries. (This was a decision for each individual country, not FIFe-wide.) I sent these letters because cats of dubious origin, found in the forest, or on the street, etc., especially in Italy, Switzerland and Germany, turned up and were recognized in novice class at that time. Surely no true NFO's were running around free in those countries! I remember that 10 years ago in Germany a cat accepted as a novice Forest Cat produced a blue Somali kitten!"
Netherlands: In the Netherlands one is allowed to import cats from Norway as novices, if it can be proved that they come from Norway, and if they are approved by a breeders' committee, but this has not been done for a long time.
Switzerland: Novices are not allowed in Switzerland, and should not be allowed in Norway.
Ragnhild: Since the closing of the novice category in Norway, she has seen some beautiful NFO-type cats being shown in the housecat division. It might be desirable to allow them to be registered if they had a very high number of points.
Monica von Ritter said in reply that such a cat might be beautiful on the outside, but you cannot know what its parents look like and it may throw up problems of type in later generations.
Martin Kristensen How would one deal, for instance, with a cat known to be a Maine Coon, who looked like a good Norwegian? He had seen one like this recently. It could easily pass on non-NFO characteristics.
Switzerland, Italy and England agreed that allowing in novices could cause problems of badly-typed cats in later generations.
(For more opinions on this point, please refer to: Do we want NFO Novices?)
[At this point it was decided to alter the sequence of the questions considered, as time was running short.]
Question 4: Do you feel there is a tendency among judges to favour certain more extreme characteristics in the NFO, or does judging generally follow the standard as it is laid down?
Switzerland: It has happened in one well-known and respected line, that an almost oriental-looking kitten has appeared. This animal is highly favoured by some judges, and rejected by others. This means that some judges are favouring extremes, and is not desirable. This is not just a question of one judge or of one kitten, but is a more general problem.
Ragnhild: This might have something to do with a tendency to prefer the elegance of longer cats in the newer style. It is important, however, that the heavy bone structure not be lost. NFOs should have this as well as elegance.
Judith Zuurveld (Netherlands): There are differences among judges, and some of them favour changes over traditional standards. She has seen changes in the older Scandinavian judges who have been judging over 20 years, but are now favouring long-headed cats they would have rejected earlier.
Mr. Calmes: The first impression he had as a student judge was that the finer, newer - style NFOs were beautiful, but on mature reflection he no longer feels the same way. It is becoming evident to him that, if a choice has to be made, there are more arguments in favour of a good structure than of a straight profile. He is afraid that too fine a structure will be damaging. He also noted that cats are different in different countries, so judges sometimes have to judge by different criteria.
Denmark: It was reported that Jette Madsen (also a judge) confirmed that different types were found in different countries. In some places judges were more permissive than in others. Also, judges have a tendency to judge only in restricted geographical areas, which led to the judgements differing from region to region inside Europe.
Paula Swepston reported that she has encountered the same problem of inconsistent judging, when the oily sheen of fur that NFO's are supposed to have, had been penalized by a judge who himself bred Persians. The characteristics of the race are not always fully appreciated even by semi-long-hair judges who do not know NFOs well. She had found a report of a similar incident in Germany.
France (Association): Judges often work on different principles, some favouring longer cats and others the stronger ones.
Ragnhild: Some cats look strong only because of the amount of fur they have, while some stronger cats with less fur look lighter. Judges must learn to allow for future development.
Mr.Calmes: This is a problem for judges.The perfect triangle of which the standard speaks is usually lost after 3 to 4 years as the cat matures perfectly normally. Such cats should be allowed to continue without being penalized. He noted that as a student judge he had learned that an NFO does not reach its full physical maturity until the age of about 4 years. In practice he sees more of the younger cats on the judging bench.
Geneviève: In a large part of France there are no good NFO judges, and breeders are forced to go outside France to find good judgements. There is only a small number of judges in the country and they should go outside to recruit better ones, but of course this is more expensive.
Mr. Calmes: Also, judges need a wider experience of good cats in order to acquire a better eye.
Italy: The judges are confused. Some like the older type, some the new. The best work on the standard comes from breeders and clubs, not from the judges. The club prefers heavier, stronger cats, as the slimmer lines now being favoured are weak. Judging differs greatly in different countries, and judges need to continue learning to know these cats better. Exhibitors need the judges as a good outside influence.
Mr. Calmes: Judges must judge differently according to the place, in order to encourage less well-typed cats and not to kill initiative.
England reported that they had recently held an NFO symposium where 6 judges had come to learn more about Norwegians.
Denmark reported holding similar training sessions, with cats present to demonstrate on. [In private conversation, Mr. Calmes reported that he hopes to hold a similar symposium in France, perhaps in Strasbourg, in autumn 1994.]
Question 6: How can we get more international cooperation going on a regular basis? Would it be possible to appoint someone NFO Secretary, or focal point, in Europe to collect and disseminate information? And/or a focal point for liaison in each club?
Paula Swepston noted that a volunteer had been found to take on the task of international coordinator: Anne Weijman from the Netherlands. She noted that the expenses of doing this work were high, and suggested that a contribution by each club would help to meet the cost of international liaison. Lee Swepston added that costs could be kept under control if each club contributing information would bear the cost of making the information available: i.e., not asking Anne to call back.
There was general agreement with the proposal, and everyone thanked Anne for taking on this task.
Paula Swepston recalled that each club should appoint an international liaison person to assure this task, and to make contact with Anne. Earlier attempts, notably an English-language newsletter organized by the Danish club, had foundered from lack of participation.
[At this point the meeting was interrupted for presentation of Best in Show, and when it reconvened not everyone was able to return.]
OTHER POINTS
A. International Top 20: SKOGKATT OF THE YEAR is born
In the temporary absence of its sponsors, Kjeld Krogh presented a 'Skogkatt of the Year' project designed by Martin Kristensen and Arnulf Stelzner, who proposed that an international top 20 list of NFOs be established. The initiative is a personal one, but the Danish and Finnish clubs support the idea. The German club had discussed it without making a formal decision. It is hoped to keep the rules laid down in the proposal for an initial period of two years before re-examining them. The system is already in operation as it covers 1994; they hope that nominations will arrive at the end of the year, for an award to be presented at the following year's World Show. Martin will circulate the proposal to everyone on the basis of the list of participants at the present meeting.
B. Participation in changes to the NFO standard
A draft petition to the FIFe judges' committee was circulated, which read as follows:
'It is in the interest of the Norwegian Forest Cat as a race that no changes in the type or show class division be undertaken without the active participation of breeders of this race; that is, without the approval of a majority of the various NFO breed clubs. We request urgently that any such proposals for change be submitted to said clubs for the consideration of their members.'
There was general approval of the idea expressed in the petition. After it was signed, Monica von Ritter undertook, as President of the host club for the meeting, to communicate it to the judges' committee.
The Netherlands: Judith said that she liked the petition, but that her club would again put forward to the FIFe General Assembly its proposal for a change in the standard as they had last year.
C.'Lilac and chocolate' Forest Cats
Paula Swepston referred to a statement from the Swedish report, from Maud Lindstedt, stating that, 'In one old proven line it suddenly popped up lilac and chocolate. Those breeders who got those colours are now working to have lilac and chocolate recognized. It would be interesting to get your comments. The lines are very well known and it would be interesting to know if somebody else in Europe have got the colours.' There was not sufficient time to get the comments, as the meeting was about to close. [Note: in private conversation, those with whom I discussed the idea were against it! It is to avoid the possibility of this kind of decision being taken without the consent of NFO breeders that there was a general opinion in favour of getting clubs' approval for changing standards. Paula.]
[For more information about how the x-color situation has developed since 1995, please refer to: About those colors and to the report from the Poznan 1998 meeting.]
D. 1995 NFO breeders' symposium
Denmark hoped that it would be possible to organize a similar meeting next year at the World Show in Lisbon (general agreement was expressed), and undertook to contact the club there to ask if they could organize it. Jette had offered to help organize the meeting, as the Portuguese NFO club is very small. Paula said that she would be glad to help if needed, and hoped that everyone else would contribute as well.
E. Thanks
A general vote of thanks was expressed to Paula for the work she had done in organizing this year's symposium.
The meeting was adjourned at 17:45 on Sunday.
Congratulations to World Winner Adult Cat: EC Gwynne Vaughani Felis Jubatus, DM,
raised by Jette Eva Madsen and Martin Kristensen and owned by Martin Kristensen.
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